Scientology's highest level

OT8 Description (blue text), Ariane JACKSON, Sept 4, 1996.
Followup questions (italics), Roger GONNET, Feb & March, 1998.
Ariane's answers (BOLD), Ariane Jackson, Feb & March, 1998.

Initial Questions

  1. What security checks are done before the course?

    Before starting OT8, I had a long sec-check at Flag.

    I got the 3D [groups] sec-check, the auditor sec check because I was a Class 6 auditor, and a tailor-made sec-check. After all those, I got a Board of Inquiry with 3 ethics officers asking questions. I felt like a criminal.

  2. What papers do you sign promising not to reveal anything?

    The same papers as on every OT level.

  3. Are there frequent searches on you between courses, for instance when you come back to your room?

    NO, because on OT8 you attach your course folder to the electronically watched table, then give it back to the security guard when you are done.

  4. What about things like price, number of hours, repairs needed before starting, FESes, etc.?

    Before starting I had to pay for four sec-check intensives at Flag, plus another intensive on the boat [Freewinds] before starting OT8. There is another sec check you have to get after finishing OT8. OT 8, plus preps and FESes, cost about $50,000.

  5. Were you allowed to see your own pc-pre-OT folders before the actual auditing?

    No. You don't have access to any of your folders.

  6. Do you mind if your answers are put on the Internet?

    You can put everything on the net, I have nothing to hide. If you want more details, ask me whatever questions you want.

Ariane Describes OT8

I have NO OT8 materials in my possession. My description is from memory, but, as you will see, there is not a lot to remember.

New OT8 consists of two parts; A and B. Part A is E-meter drills and drilling actions required on a C/S 53 (this is an action supposed to find and "handle" mental trauma arising from past bad auditing or life situations that will interfere with auditing)

  1. Could we say that those drills are done while auditing the CS 53? or are they auditing drills?

    On part A, one has to redo the whole series of e-meter drills, correction lists, and C/S 53, which you have to solo audit before starting the real OT8 part.

  2. What is the justification for auditing these previous levels? Does Hubbard give one?

    Nothing; just that you have not yet finished the level.

  3. Does one audit their BTs with a CS 53?

    Yes: when I audited my CS 53, everything was flat, so no new BTs.

Part B consists of reading History of Man and getting very thoroughly checked out on it, and studying and solo-auditing New OT8.

  1. Would you tell us what you understood from History of Man and its relationship with past auditing? - I personally don't see any reason to get back on the Clam story or other FAC 1. It looks so crazy and without any technical relationship, which I usually don't see in Hubbard's series. Did he give some justification?

    You don't audit on clams or that sort of thing. The only thing you do on OT8 is to review past auditing and ask the "right or wrong" question on the identities that you have run. For instance, in your own Dianetic auditing, you found you were Maupassant. On OT8, you would ask 'right' or 'wrong' on this identity.

    (Translation under construction)

    1.Est-ce censé manier des BTs, ou des identités de BTs, ou simplement, réviser les auditions de niveaux inférieurs?

    Is there any handling of BTs or BT identities, or is it simply a repair of previous bad auditing.?

    2.Qu'est-ce qu'on peut bien trouver à vérifier dans ses propres doutes?

  2. Is that done with one of the Listing and Nulling processes which could help to become aware of the absence of "identities" coming from lower levels, and which could therefore lead to the conclusion that those past lives did not exist?

    No, no Listing and Nulling. It is only to remember past identities found in past auditing.

The description of the rundown given in the materials is not at all precise. In that respect it differs from all other actions I did in Scientology. There is no question(s) given in quotation marks. The instructions simply state that you have to look over your past auditing and take the past-life identities you have discovered you were and check them on the E-meter to see if they are true or false. You cannot look at your folders so you do the identities you remember. Some of the people initially responsible for supervising OT8 were RPF'd for giving us suggestions on what to do. Without words put in our mouths we did not know what to do.

The first thing you do is the C/S 53. Then the instructions from the Case Supervisor consist of

     1.Fly a rud (ie. "handle" anything your attention is on)

  1. The ruds - is it on you or on possible BTs? It looks simple enough because from OT2 on, ruds have little weight except on BTs.

    When you fly a rud, you ask if the rud is out, and if it's you or a BT or cluster.

     2. OT8.

Here is an example of what I did in an actual session, and what I wrote because I had to write down what I did. I took the identity "Beethoven" because I remembered having "realised" in auditing that I "was" Beethoven. I looked at the E-meter I was connected to and I thought about being Beethoven and I thought the question "True?" and looked to see if the meter reacted. It didn't. I thought the question "False?" and the meter reacted. So I had NOT actually been Beethoven. Here is what I wrote (it's in French, my native tongue)

Vrai? x ("x" means no meter reaction) 
Faux? LF ("LF" means Long Fall, a meter reaction)
F/N  (Floating Needle means the action concerning Beethoven is
finished and I am happy about it)

"Beethoven: right? X (X= no read)

"Beethoven: wrong? LF (long fall, an e-meter read) and F/N (F/N: free needle, that means that the action regarding Beethoven is finished and that I'm satisfied of it)

Of all the identities I checked on OT8 only one turned out to be true.

  1. 1. Can we get some detail on the identity, why it could be right "technically" or "according your judgement"?

    No. You ask the identity right or wrong and if you get a read on "right" on this identity, it's a right one. Nothing else.

I was allowed to attest that I had finished when I had a "big cognition" (ie. a realization) about death. I had had a very strong fear of death which had not resolved in all the auditing I had done. On OT8 I realised that I, the being, would never die and I was "totally blown out" as Scientologists would say.

  1. I suppose (perhaps wrongly) that you could have had that sort of cognition half a dozen times before about death and about your own permanency as a being. Scienos speak so often about past lives! Did you get a really different feeling about that cog, that it could be linked to that specific process rather than from the other ones you got before?

    No. That OT8 level was quite stunning because everything was so vague. I was not alone to get that feeling.

  2. Could your realization be a possible cog for that level or is it the specific cog for that level?

    I don't know. The cog which influenced me to attest was on death, and I had a floating TA for the examiner.

I was now OT8 and I came back home and promptly got sick.

Because of the hype OT8s are regarded as demi-gods and have to conceal the problems and inadequacies they have. I had the opportunity to study the "cases" of some OT8s and speak with others and I realised I was by no means the only OT8 with problems. Some of the problems suffered by OT8s are alcoholism, homosexuality (regarded by Scientology as a degraded, perverted activity only indulged in by individuals who are not worthy of having ANY rights in society), extra-marital affairs, voyeurism, heart attacks, strokes, criminality, and divorce.

  1. Did you speak to the C/S that you were ill, or another 'terminal'?

    No. I did not speak to the C/S. However, sometime later every OT 8 who attested prior to #500 (I think) was asked to come back to the boat as soon as possible because there was out-tech [errors in auditing], which would explain why so many were ill. I did not want to go back, but I received an order to go immediately to the Freewinds or I could have some ethics trouble. On the boat, I got a repair list which consisted of a C/S 53. I got back home to [deleted] with a fantastic headache and had to stay in bed.

  2. Did whatever proposed repair or ridiculous handling have to be accepted? Translation unsure

    Yes, the C/S 53 had to be done on board.

  3. Do you think that the illness was caused by the out-tech or by the OT8 tech itself? Translation unsure

    It's a mystery to me. What's interesting is that I did OT8 with three other people and came home first. When the other three went home a week later, they were ill with flu, headache, and fever.

  4. Did that reinforce or create any disabilities, which I have seen in more than one OT on OT3 or NOTs? This is quite important - do you know if any OT8s have spoken together (perhaps without authorization) about their processes, cogs, etc.?

    I don't know. You know that with OT8 being the highest level, we were looked upon as superior beings. Therefore, we had to hide our disappointments and doubts.

  5. Did you see anything similar to what I mentioned?

    Yes, more or less. Did you know Veronique Pizzinat? When I went on my review/repair, I was in her room. She was on the boat for perhaps 3 months on OT8, completely hallucinating. She wanted to borrow $10,000. She said that with the abilities she got from OT8, she could get the $10000 just before the Reg wanted it. However, she did not want to do it because it might make the Reg afraid. I have seen a lot strange behavior from people who have done OT8.

General Questions about OT8

  1. Do you think those who don't leave scientology before [OT8] might have had bad auditing up to that point?

    It is difficult to answer that question. Perhaps they are the ones who best respond to brainwashing - those who do not think very much. It takes great courage to leave scientology, even more when you are high on the "Bridge".

  2. Do you think they could be straightening some criter never solved despite Hubbard's claims? Translation unsure


  3. Any other ideas on this? Did you get the same feeling on OT8 that when pcs or pre-OTs were talking about their prior auditing, that they were afraid to really expose their cog[nition]s?

    Yes, I got that feeling. When I did OT8, each morning we had a meeting on the deck to say our previous day's cogs. I can assure you it was not easy for many, or they were those stupid cogs like making it rain on an area which had not had rain for several months.

    I am sorry to have not answered sooner, but I had semester exams. Now I'm on vacation for two weeks, so if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them.

    As I look back, I do not understand how I could have been so stupid to let others manipulate me this way; having been so anxious about ethics and letting it lead my life, having lost my children for them, and everything I have accepted for nothing in the long run. If my experience can help others not make the same mistakes, I will not have lost everything.

Last questions:

  1. Did you get or see others getting "ethics handlings" before or during the OT8 rundown? sec-checks during auditing, people ill, etc.?

    Before starting OT8 on the boat, every OT8 candidate goes to the Ethics Officer. If the Ethics Officer thinks there are some ethics handlings to do before starting OT8, they are done. There is also a sec-check before starting it. You know, when I did OT8, there were only a few of us - 5 or 6.

  2. Were there repair lists done by auditors, not in solo, for some overwhelms, and were those lists billed in addition to OT8?

    Yes indeed! Veronique Pizzinat, the wife of Dominique, (Ecole du Rythme - they divorced since) had to do many repair lists and had to pay for the intensives, since she got auditing from an auditor.

  3. Could you describe the average duration of
    1. the theory course
      Theory is about one week long
    2. and the time needed to audit it?
      Between one and two weeks
    3. Number of pages of theory?
      Section A theory is about 20 pages for e-meter drills and repair lists. Section B: 2 or 3 pages.

  4. Regarding everything that you experienced, do you really believe that Ron -or even Mayo - could have written something which is so contradictory to previous levels? (He could have jumped to something less crazy like the Wall of Fire III, or auditing the OT's dreams with a new tech, or any other kind of LRH -or Mayo- thing, but this search for wrong identities appears to be very contradictory to all past tech. Could it be that the SOURCE is not LRH or Mayo?)

    Hard to answer: the bulletins I've read on OT8 looked like Hubbard's style. You could ask Vaughn Young; he knows him, having worked for him.

  5. Thanks very much for remembering all of this! This OT8 affair looks so strange when compared to everything else which was already absurd, but at least it deserves some merit for its incredibility. This return to old auditing could indicate a faked level from Miscavige, or an auditor not believing in what he lived till now...

    Do you really believe it's possible that OT 9 to 15 exists, and would you have any logical idea as to what those levels could be, after all this?

    I strongly doubt there are possible upper levels; OT8 was seen ten years ago, and just look at the numerous prerequisites now needed to go onto OT 9: SHSBC, and much more. Certainly Miscavige has been desperately trying to prepare OT9 for many years, but without success.
      That was that, Roger
    Friendly, Ariane

    Ariane Jackson, September 1996.- Ariane Jackson Feb-March 98

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